Readers seem to think of authors are the ultimate professionals and write a clean book from front to back with little or no editing. Little do they know the behind the scenes work that goes on to make a book presentable.
But what constitutes presentable? Do readers really care about many of the things pubs and editors flip over. I’m talking about passive sentences, overuse of words, head hopping (as long as it’s not confusing), fragments and overuse of modifiers to name a few. Of course there are some—call them perfectionists—who do, but I believe they are a small minority. Most readers, me included, happily read along, absorbing every word, improper or not. Hey “shit happens.” Some readers can read an atrociously edited book and give it a five star rating, based strictly on the story as they did on this unnamed book on which I saw fit to comment with an Amazon review.
“If you ignore the absurdity of the premise and just go along, it's kind of a fun read. Maybe, a four star. Unfortunately, the publisher let the author down, because the editing flat sucks. Among other things there must have been thirty or forty missing words. I'm not that fussy, but c'mon. I doubt this story was even proof read.
The other reviewers are either obtuse or more forgiving. I heard a flap about six months ago regarding pour editing at (Name Deleted) and now I've seen it. Sorry Kimberly, Three Stars and be glad it isn't two.”
Now at the time, I was the first reviewer to mention editing. Since then one or two reviewers have sounded off about the editing but still the overwhelming number of reader reviews are five stars. This leads me to believe a good story can trump poor or non-existent editing for a majority of readers.
Here are some examples of other truthful if negative reader reviews among a sea of positive reviews on another popular author’s books.
“I won't even get into the grammatical mistakes in this book because it is typical for this author. Her editors need to be fired ASAP!”
“2. Editing: haphazard punctuation replete with lotsa misspelled words or correctly spelled words used incorrectly. this feels like a first draft that needed additional attention from an outside eye.”
“I just don't get it. Is there no editing done at this publishing house. As someone who knows about the world of e-publishing and reads a lot of interracial romance, I can assure you that this author never edits anything.”
“And don't even get me started on the typographical errors of which there were MANY!!”
“I'm not sure if I'm the only one that noticed the poor (if any) editing. Maybe it lost something in the digital transition, but wowee. Verbs, adverbs missing and make sentence structure nil.”
In this case, the hits about editing do not carry over to other authors books from this publisher. To me this means one of two things. This author keeps getting the same crumby editor or…this publisher doesn’t edit at all and the other authors write cleaner books.
My two examples are from popular authors, who publish through long time well known, certainly top ten and maybe top five epubs. Why can these two publishers get away with this? Because the overwhelming majority of readers seem to be indifferent about sloppy books.
What about you? Where do you stand when it comes to editing? Are you accepting, like me, to a point and then throw the book at the wall when that point is reached? I’d really like to know where readers and writers come down on this.
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Seeing her husband standing on the lawn directing the movers, she storms up to her husband, only to receive an even bigger shock and deep hurt when their lawyer, her long time friend from college, hands her a divorce petition.
WARNING! This book contains explicitly described love/sex scenes
23 comments:
While it might not bother you to have missing words, action that isn't shown but rather is "tell"-- headhopping may be something that doesn't bother you because you don't mind going back and reading a passage again, etc--the fact is, WITH a good edit, the reading experience is so much more enjoyable. And the edit isn't just about headhopping, passive voice, sentence structure.
Books need a good content edit. Lack of continuity and plotting that isn't balanced can ruin a book. Most review sites give reviewers the instruction of reviewing the story and NOT pointing out issues which pertain to edits. But some are fine with it if the issues are rampant.
Too many issues can throw a reader out of a story. Why not strive for perfection? Why is just getting by okay?
I can ignore *some* passive and omniscient that creeps into work, but if the grammar is horrible and there are typos, I'm like Tess, it throws me out of the read and I end up throwing the book across the room or hitting the delete button. Head hopping (pov switches) will jar me out of the read too. I can't count the times I've been reading along in the heroine's pov and suddenly I'm thinking 'what the heck happened? This can't be Jane's thoughts. What the...?' and I end up going back a few paragraphs to discover a sudden pov switch.
Grammar and punctuation is there so that the prose flows smoothly. Since I edit professionally and worked for three publishing houses, I know one misplaced or missing comma can take the meaning of a nice sentence and imply something totally different.
Editors and writers aren't perfect, but if you strive for perfection the prose will be that much better than it could've been without it and the reader will enjoy it all the more.
Nice blog, Dee!
If it's a really good read, I can overlook some typos and word misuse. I can't remember a book I've ever read that I didn't see a couple little things - it happens.
If there are more than a few errors, I'll feel like I wasted my money and I'd be very unlikely to purchase from that author again.
I can't overlook poor editing, no matter how good the story is. If I've paid for something (I'm a little more forgiving for freebies), I don't want to have to think about whether I'm really reading dialogue when a punctuation mark was missed, or whether the author meant *this* word instead of the word that was used, or what word might be missing that would make what I read make sense. I can't say I necessarily notice passive voice, but I bet if the story was full of it, I'd feel something was "off". For me, poor editing can completely ruin a story. My brain can't ignore the problems because it's trying to figure out what should have been. The continuity of the story is broken if I have to think about it too much.
Tess and Faith, I wasn't out to denigrate what editors do. Do your job. I have no problem with that. The blog was written to point out that at some houses, editing is obviously not a high priority...and for the most part they get away with it.
Why, because, most readers don't know how the book is supposed to read. The fact is there is no consensus. Some pubs put a comma before every and, but and so and some do in some places, while others never do. Some of the biggest name authors head hop all over the place, so why is a reader supposed to think it's wrong. Sometime showing is done in such a confusing manner, they should have told.
I guess because of all this readers tolerance for sloppy books has increased. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Thanks for your thoughts, DEE
Hello Penny, I'm not a fanatic about editing either, but there is a limit. What I was trying to point out was most readers either don't have a limit or don't recognize errors.
Thanks for commenting
No worries, Dee. I understood the point of your blog.
The fact is some e-publishers don't test their editors before they hire them. Although there are some who do test potential editors, one e-pub will use the CMS as their editing and grammar guideline whereas another will use the MLA as theirs. The CMS is stricter than the MLA.
I'm with publishers who use both style books, so I keep a notebook of sorts on their in-house style. Otherwise it drives me crazy trying to keep track of which e-pub wants a comma before 'and' in a list and which one doesn't, lol.
Readers in general, and I'm speaking of non-writers, aren't going to pay as much attention to head hopping or some such as much as a writer/editor/teacher who reads a lot.
Dee,
First of all congrats with your sales at 3rd party vendors! It's always uplifting to see books doing so well.
From the article, I gather that you were talking about glaring errors. If a reader or reviewer notes and picks up on errors, then YES they are glaring and authors are responsible for fixing those errors. Of course, every one makes mistakes and most of us understand that.
I hear so much people putting the blame on editors. Well, the editor should have caught this and caught that. I disagree. Your name goes on the book and you are responsible for your own book reputation, not the editor. Editors only make the book shine all the more. They can point out the mistakes, but author is responsible for fixing them.
I have reviewed a number of books with errors. If the errors are glaring as you discussed, I will make a comment on the review about it, be/c we can all agree that glaring errors take away from the story/plot. So much so that I will put down a book and never pick it up again. Isn't it kind of fustrating when you go to another country and can't understand the language? That is sometimes how it feels for me. You want to understand and comprehend, but you can't, because you don't know what they are trying to tell you. The words are lost.
I wouldn't be too quick to point fingers at editors on this one. They didn't write the book. Most readers don't look for the name of the editor (or publisher) to decide whether they buy your book or not, they judge the book and name on it.
Congrats again though, sometimes it is all about the story...
Ambrielle Kirk
www.ambriellekirk.com
Hello Heather, You are one of the few, who recognize poor editing and won't accept it. I won't accept a lot of mistakes, too. I was a judge in the Eppies contest in 2009 and many of the judges were concerned about what constituted enough errors to start deducting on the book's score. I don't remember what this group settled on as excessive editing/writing errors but it was a lot. Something like more than one every three hundred words.
One of the books I was reading at the time was by a well known male author at Amber Quill and I was surprised at the errors including he when referring to the heroine and she when referring to the male antagonist. I wound up deducting a half point from his score.
Hi again Faith, It really is a mess when you write for different pubs. I work hard to hold pesky crutch words like that, was and had to a minimum. On a very recent book under another pen name for Siren, an editor kept adding these unnecessary words back in. How is author to know how to write?
This of course is a moot point when it comes to the average reader, who would be unlikely to to notice if unnecessary hads and thats were thrown in.
Hi Am, I'm not necessarily blaming editors for poor editing. In fact I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm merely stating that books with suspect or no editing are being offered to the public. Why or how this came about I can only speculate.
I will tell you that of all the books of mine that have been edited, only one editor was a repeat and that was for two different pubs. I will also say that each editor did things differently and expected different things, sometimes in contradiction to previous editors.
This leads me to conclude that nothing is set in stone, there is usually more than one acceptable way to do something, editing is far from a science and it seems to be in a constant state of flux.
Thanks for joining in, DEE
Hi Dee,
That's a fair enough observation about editors. I've found too that editors are not cookie-cutter. They're all different in their approach. And the only thing I've seen set in stone are the ten commandments and even those rules get broken.
And I can share one speculation about how books with little to no editing get out to the public: the same way that lead poisoning toys, trusted-brand cars with recalls on them, defected baby cribs, and tainted food make it into our homes.
Intentionally overlooked or innocent mistake?
Just goes to show that no matter how pretty the package or manufacturer, everyone makes errors and mistakes. I like to think all authors care about fixing the errors before taking their work to press.
Ambrielle Kirk
www.ambriellekirk.com
Nice blog, Dee.
Before I started to write seriously, a few mistakes didn't bother me. I'd say oop's and move on.
Now, since I am a little bit more wise, LOL, I catch alot more and wonder how they let things slip... Does it bother me as a reader? Not really if its a good book otherwise. I just make a note, as a writer, not to make the same mistake.
Hi Dee,
I thought I might as well add my two cents to the conversation.
To me, editing is huge. I've had editors who I've been thrilled to work with, knowing they'd find and point out errors or inconsistencies I'd missed in my second or third read through. These people are invaluable.
I wonder if readers realize how many times we authors actually read over a piece? I know I get to a point where I'm not reading each word, but reading what I know should be there. Having other eyes go over a story can catch the 'he' instead of 'she' type errors where I'd miss them.
I've also had other editors who suggest I add the dreaded that, and, when and the rest of those words. Often I'll simply ignore the comments and just do what I feel is write. Other times, the editor will repeat the suggestion and I'll comment to them.
It's really difficult to know what is accepted as right, too. Times change, styles in writing change and some rules get tossed as old hat. POV shifting has become popular in some of the big name books. Comma placement has become a mystery to me. I used to think I knew, but each publishing house seems to have its own rules.
Who's to blame? No one. Language evolves. I, as an author, find it difficult to blame the author in some circumstances. But, when I hear of an author saying they don't need edits, I cringe. When I see an editor change something I know is correct to something I know isn't, I cringe even more. The only option left to an author then is to pull their story. If it's been contracted, they may not have that choice.
Well, that's my little rant. An interesting topic.
Hugs
Jude
I have a pretty low tolerance for sloppy grammar, wrong words, etc. In fact, if I find multiple errors within the first few pages of a book, I probably won't read any further.
As authors, language is the tool of our trade. It ticks me off that some authors can't be bothered to learn how to use that tool correctly. I make a point of turning in the cleanest manuscripts possible. It's a simple matter of taking pride in one's work.
Tammy, I know exactly what you're talking about. When it comes to reading, ignorance is bliss. I never found errors before I started writing. Now, I drive my wife nuts when she hands me a book to read and I keep finding errors. We're talking print books here from big NY pubs.
I used to idolize Carl Hiaasen. His Skinny Dip and Native Tongue are two of my all time favorites, but I haven't even finished his last two books. The last one, Stormy Weather had a half dozen boo boos in the first dozen pages.
Thanks for dropping by, Dee
I always pride myself on the grammar, etc in my novels. On several occasions, I've had to quote from the Webster's Secretarial Handbook when an editor has wanted to change something to an incorrect form. That a reviewer might catch this was pointed out in one of my own novels though the errors there were in transmission rather than actually existing because I went back to check what I'd sent him. Nevertheless, before sending in that final manuscript, I go over it once again for grammar and sentence structure. Since I also review books on my website, I've been exposed to a multitude of writing sins. A good many of them are the misuse of homonyms--such as "reign" for "rein", "grizzly" for "grisly", etc. The rest are generally using pronouns incorrectly, such as "he and I" versus "him and me." Some of these copy editors appear to be high school drop-outs and I find myself asking "Where do they get these kids?" I've recently started re-reading my own novels, checking out grammar and thus far, out of 21, I've found only two mistakes which got past me and--obviously--also past my editor. Do we blame education for the original deficit and publishers for wanting to get stories out fast and thinking their readers won't mind a half-edited work second or what? I've been told "Most people aren't going to notice those mistakes." But if I know they're there... Besides, if someone sees a mistake and recognizes it, does she blame the editor. No. The blame goes to the author. (And if, like one of my editors did, a correct form is changed to an incorrect one, that makes it even worse. I don't like being blames for someone else's ignorance.) Don't readers deserve a book that is in the best shape possible, whether they appreciate it or not?
Hi Jude, I pretty much agree with all the points you have made. Good job, Thanks
Hello Cat, Thanks for dropping by. Yes an author should turn in the best ms he can, but that's not always easy. I can find errors in other writers work much easier than my own. And a sentence that sounds perfectly all right to me may sound awkward or might not even make sense to others.
I can't tell you how often, I have read over the same mistake (usually in person since I write in first and third person) until I'm blue in the face and someone else catches it on the first go around.
That is what the last line of defense, the editors, are for and if we can't count on them or if our publisher decides the can take short cuts or bypass editing we are defenseless
The English language is changing with time. Things that once were compulsory, or forbidden, are now author's choice. Things like the comma in front of every "and." Or "he ran, then he tripped" instead of "he ran, and then he tripped." Even if the Grammar Nazis complain, the average reader will simply not notice these as errors. Personally, I try to write so each sentence sounds the best, and to hell with some of the fussy grammar rules. I think the reader will enjoy the book more this way than if I, and/or the editor, worried about grammar trivia.
Yeah, when I was talking about errors, it wasn't necessarily the placement of commas. Since there are differences of opinion (I've been taught both are correct by different instructors), I'll let something like that slide. It's the misuse of words and other punctuation (specifically missing double quotes indicating speech is beginning or ending) that gets me. If someone is talking about a stiletto, the proper word is "heel", not "heal". I've gotten to the point where if the author has something wrong with their *blurb*, I won't even consider reading it or likely anything else written by him/her. If the first impression can't be error free, I shudder at what the rest of it might look like, and that's a shame. It may be a perfectly edited story or an awesome story, but the errors... maybe I'm a grammar snob, I dunno. I can forgive some things, but when it gets to be excessive, it's no longer fun to read.
As an avid reader, and sometimes editor for some of my author friends, I can't help but cringe when I read a poorly edited book. I've read them from smaller publishers and larger ones. Heck, I've even read a few poorly edited Nora Roberts books.
In any case, I don't look at passive voice or even grammar (as a reader) so much because as long as the story flows smoothly, it doesn't bother me.
Head hopping can be jarring if not done well, but that's not something I mind so much as a reader either.
What does bug me is missing words or punctuation. It doesn't really take me out of the story, but it makes me "stumble" while I'm reading and can be annoying.
There's a smaller e-publisher out there that I submitted a story to awhile back. I won't mention the name of the publisher, but my work was rejected. Okay, fine, it happens. But then I had a couple of e-books from that same publisher on my Sony Reader and a few days after my rejection notice, I started reading them.
The books were riddled with errors. Oh the grammar and passive voice parts of it were fine, but there was little to no punctuation usage, a boatload of misspelled and misused words and several inconsitencies from one story to the next, (it was a series of three books) like reference to the background of one character pointing to one city in one book and an entirely different city in the next.
That same series had one of the main characters eye color and hair color keep changing back and forth. Not a good thing in my opinion.
Still stinging from the rejection from this publisher, I fired off an email, basically lambasting them for the shoddy editing on the series. I also told them perhaps it was a good thing my manuscript was rejected.
After all, I wouldn't want my work to be published in such poor shape. An writer is basically the employee of the publisher. If the writer's work is sloppy and unedited, it reflects poorly not just on the writer but on the editor as well.
The reply I received was that my rejection had nothing to do with the quality of the story and the publisher assured me they edit each story thoroughly and would look into the series I'd mentioned.
I thought maybe I'd been a bit harsh, and as I said, was still stinging from my rejection, but I purchased another e-book from the same publisher, one which had been released shortly after my rejection and subsequent email to them, and low and behold, the story (a standalone) was still riddled with mistakes.
Not a good impression if you ask me, and I won't be purchasing any more works from that publisher in the future.
Good editing is vital, in my opinion, to readers and writers alike. It can make or break a publisher.
Just my two cents.
Great blog, Dee.
Hello Toni, You would fall into the perfectionist category. I agree a book should be as error as possible, to a point. Many ebooks will not even make the publishers back the money they've invested in editing and book covers.
Mind you they may be fine books, they just never caught the book reading public's attention. I have such books, great reviews but no buyers.
Therefore, they cannot afford to edit a book to death. Time is money and too much money going out without enough coming in leads to shutting the doors.
Is it worth several hours of editing to catch maybe a half dozen or less errors that might annoy you, by going through a book a third or fourth time.
If you had a publishing company, you might see things differently.
That's not to let the publishers who are trying to get by by skim editing or possibly not editing at all off the hook.
Thanks a lot, I wanted and have been getting all kinds of points of views
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